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Friday, June 05, 2009

Questions and criticism bubble at flood meeting
By JOY BROWN

STAFF WRITER

MOUNT BLANCHARD -- Findlay is a watery "hole in the ground" and only residents foolish enough to live there should have to pay to fix flooding problems, one man claimed Thursday night at a lively informational meeting on the proposed Blanchard River Conservancy District.

The second in a series of four meetings, held by the Northwest Ohio Flood Mitigation Partnership, targeted the agricultural community in the southern part of the Blanchard River watershed.

About 200 people showed up at Riverdale High School and it was, at times, a hostile community, with questions directed more toward flood control issues in general rather than creation of a new conservancy district.

Partnership President Tony Iriti tried to keep the focus on the proposed district, reiterating the Partnership's stance that such an entity, separate from the Maumee Watershed Conservancy District, would be better able to operate and maintain any flood control structures that may be built.

But many of those in attendance were critical of how the district would be formed and who would control it.

Although the Partnership will seek the support of all county commissioners and councils within the six-county watershed, some pointed out that only Findlay City Council's go-ahead could starts the petition process that would lead to formation of the district.

Other questions led Iriti to clarify the potential new district's structure.

Power, he said, would lie in the hands of a six-member district court made up of one common pleas court judge from each of the six counties within the watershed. The conservancy district's board of directors and assessors would fall under the judges' supervision, he said.

Iriti said the conservancy district would not have unusual authority.

"County commissioners have the same powers now that conservancy districts have. How are they (districts) bridled? Because they use common sense and reason, the same way judges do when they deal with cases in their courts," said Iriti. "People put policies in place to manage these powers."

Iriti admitted there are good and bad districts. The Muskingum Conservancy District, which has been challenged in court for its assessment policies, "made some major mistakes," he said, while "the Miami Conservancy District has done it right" by making its assessment information as clear and accessible as possible, he said.

Some at Thursdsay's meeting dismissed Iriti's contention that everyone should help create a flooding solution, because everyone contributes to the problem. They rejected the idea that farmers be assessed for projects that would primarily benefit Findlay and Ottawa.

"Kenton is where it all starts, and that water flows north," said Iriti. He said he envisions any assessments to pay for projects and conservancy district operations would cost more for those who benefit, and less for watershed residents who do not, like those who live in Hardin and southern Hancock counties.

"This is just going to benefit Findlay," said an attendee. "We didn't buy our property in Findlay because it's a hole in the ground. Why are you making me pay for somebody else's benefit?"

Merritt VonStein, however, said he thinks everyone should be assessed equally. Otherwise, "you're going to have a real hard time selling it (conservancy district formation) to agriculture."

"There were a lot of low-income people, renters, who were hurt by the 2007 flood," said Theresa Allen, a township trustee. "Those were the only rental properties they could afford. So that is an issue too when you're talking about assessments."

"I've heard that a lot of people in Hardin County would buy into this a lot more if they were assured that Findlay and Ottawa stop all commercial and residential development in the flood plain," said one woman, eliciting applause.

Iriti said such a prohibition could be a caveat of the new district's plan for maintenance and operations, but it would have to apply to the whole watershed.

Findlay has "stepped up its flood plain regulations" in recent years, Iriti said, but he said that should have taken place in the 1980s when development was booming.

One flood reduction option the Partnership has developed, while Army Corps of Engineers studies are being completed, is diverting Eagle Creek to the west of Findlay and dumping floodwater into Aurand Run.

A Blanchard Township resident, whose land would presumably be affected, asked how he would benefit from that, and Iriti explained it would allow for floodwater "storage," thereby slowing and "breaking up" the flow in order to cause less impact to Findlay.

"So you're going to do all this work to flood farmland south of Findlay to save Findlay," one man said. "Why don't you just call FEMA and have Obama take care of it?" he joked.

According to Iriti, the Army Corps will require any flood control plan to have no resulting "adversarial impact."

"You can't solve a problem in one area by creating one in another," Iriti said.

At past presentations, Findlay Engineer Brian Hurt has described the Blanchard River watershed as "topographically challenged." Iriti on Thursday said actual storage of floodwater is not feasible since it would take up too much productive farmland.

He said the only foolproof, yet impossible solution to prevent flooding in the Blanchard River watershed is to "break through that glacial shelf" and shoot water straight to Lake Erie, or turn the whole area back into the Black Swamp.

According to Iriti, the steps toward formation of the conservancy district will include hearings for residents to voice their opinions.

Iriti ended the meeting when opponents of the district, including Cecil Boes and John Motter, began questioning how the Partnership itself was formed and why agricultural groups were not invited to be sponsors despite more than 80 percent of the watershed being agricultural.

Iriti said the Partnership, a private group, was created to speed up flood control efforts, and was "started through Gary Heminger" at Marathon Oil, who recruited financial backers.

The next informational meeting on the proposed conservancy district will be at 7 p.m. Thursday in the Bluffton Town Hall community room.

Brown: 419-427-8496,

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13 Comments (2 pages)

Latest comments listed first.
Les wrote:
Flooding
“ The last time I checked, There was a large, deep stone quarry beside lake cascades blvd that I understand is quarried out. How about diverting Eagle creek into the quarry, buy the farm land for habitat, probably get ducks unlimited or the environmental groups to pitch in. Install a pumping system to pull the water out of the quarry when the river drops back to its normal level. The last thing you want the Corps of Engineers to do is build levees. Look at New Orleans and the towns in Minnisota and North Dakota that flooded this spring. ”
Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:38:14 AM
findlayhawk wrote:
Flood investigation
“ If anyone is interested in reading a really good article on flooding you should check out a series of articles by Dan Reinhart published in the Progressor Times, the Carey newspaper. While I may disagree with some of the people interviewed for the story I found it to be the most comprehensive investigation of flooding I have seen in the area.

It is a series of 3 articles titled "Stopping the Flood".
You can find the articles online at www.theprogressortimes.com

 ”
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:03:35 PM
Citizen wrote:
All about Findlay.
“ This conservancy district should never see the light of day. A UN elected body that does not account to nobody, that will have the power to assess millions of dollars with no public hearings and no vote of the people. Who ever is behind this is trying to totally kill the six counties that it will affect. It appears that the city of Findlay is the culprit. I think you could say this is all about Findlay and to heck with everybody else, what's new. ”
Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:58:23 AM
findlayhawk wrote:
It's not that simple
“ While I can understand Mr. Snodgrass is upset about flooding I think his statement that construction in Findlay is the primary cause of flooding is overly simplistic as is his proposal to dredge the river 15~20 feet thru Findlay. In fact, he mentions several ideas that have been discussed in depth since the flood of 2007. Unfortunately it is not as simple as he would like.
Facts present a different story regarding development and its effect on flooding than Mr. Snodgrass. Lets look specifically at Findlay. Roughly 343 square miles of the Blanchard river watershed is upstream of Findlay. How large is the area covered by all development in Findlay over the last 30 years? If we assume Findlay doubled in size during this period how much difference does it really make? According to the census of 2000, the city of Findlay accounts for about 17.3 square miles of the 343 square miles of watershed that impacts flooding in Findlay. Put another way, the city of Findlay as of the year 2000, only accounted for 5% of the land in the watershed that causes flooding in Findlay. Lets say Findlay doubled to 5% over the last 30 years or so. If we accept that assumption then the development over the last 30 years everyone is so anxious to blame only accounts for 2.5% of the watershed. Even if we choose to believe the 5% figure I threw out in an earlier post it still does not add up. How can such a small percentage of the watershed cause all the flooding?
So lets look at the often cited solution of dredging the river. Again citing the census, of the 17.3 square miles of land that Findlay encompasses, 0.1 square miles of the city is water. I think it is safe to assume this is by and large the river and small creeks that feed it. I wont go thru all the math but roughly speaking a foot of river depth in Findlay holds about 23,150,220 gallons of water. So the idea to dig the river 20 feet deeper thru Findlay provides roughly 463 million gallons of storage. As a comparison, the Findlay reservoir #2 holds around 5 billion gallons of water. The flood of 2007 would have required storage equal to 16 reservoirs the size of the Findlay reservoir if we stored every drop of water that fell. But even if we say we only need to hold 25% of the rain that falls during a rain event like that of 2007 we still need about 4 reservoirs that store 5 billion gallons each or a total of 20 billion gallons. Dredging the river as suggested possibly provides 463 million gallons of storage-if that pesky issue of elevation doesnt kill the whole idea. I may be wrong but I think the Blanchard only falls 15 feet or so as it passes thru Findlay. If I am correct the proposed solution actually does very little. It creates a pretty nice fishing hole that once filled with water does very little to help with flooding.
The last point I would like to make is in regards the idea to create large storage areas by digging large quarries. While I personally like the idea I am pretty sure it wont work for several reasons. One strike against the idea is the time it would take to quarry out enough stone to be effective. Potentially this time frame could be decades long. Secondly, quarries tend to reduce the water table of those around the quarry. The water table issue is twofold. (A) The change in the water table will probably force everyone in the area to drill far deeper wells. (B) The water that overflows into the empty hole during a rain event contains nitrates and other nasty things that should not be consumed. Unless the storage hole has a liner of some sort the river water stored in the empty quarry would contaminate the groundwater in the immediate area. Another strike against this concept is the fact that the only way to remove the water after a flood event is to pump the water. The energy and maintenance cost associated with pumping stations far exceeds the cost of maintaining ditches and diversion channels. So digging several quarries entails several pumping stations, the associated power lines and related costs. It is an expensive answer. The last problem is the sheer size of storage needed. The Findlay reservoir is about 1 square mile at something like 25 feet deep. If we want to dig the hole 100 feet deep or more we may be able to keep the size down to one square mile. But if the farming community is hesitant to support diversion channels how will we ever come up with a square mile of land, located where it needs to be, for this solution?
Flooding in the Blanchard is an extremely complicated issue and no matter how much we would all like to find the easy, low cost answer it is just not that simple of a problem to solve.
 ”
Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:51:22 AM
Barry Snodgrass wrote:
Findlay, What a town
“ That was a simplton comment made, that told Mt Blanchard to just stay away. That took alot of thought, didn't it? Why not work together, knowing Findlay screwed up and made huge mistakes in the past that are now coming to roost. Findlay is a wealthy town and those who made the most off of the poor decisions to build more homes and businesses in the flood plain SHOULD be charged more, because they benefitted most! The power brokers of Findlay know they messed up and they should be the leaders to correct thier mistakes, period. Once again, its the wealthy trying to swing a big hammer and squash those who speak the truth. Its not the average Findlay-ite who caused this problem, so don't throw a wet blanket over everyone in Findlay. Just on those who gained at everyone elses expense. City records should shine a glaring light on those trying to hide from the uncomfortable truth. ”
Friday, June 05, 2009 11:25:11 PM
Barry Snodgrass wrote:
The Flood Meeting
“ I originally grew up in Findlay. When Findlay had the money (1980's) they spent it on the East side of town (wealthier side). Why should those less fortunate pay for the sins of the few wealthy developers who were in bed with the city management (council included)? To say Findlay is the hub is WRONG. Support the 80% who will be fending off water while Findlay bask in the dryness they want to create. Why not dredge the blanchard through Findlay say 15-20ft deep (blasting involved), build dikes on either side from Riverside to I-75. Purchase land to dig several deep lime stone quarry's, sell stone off to pay for them and let ALL of them become overflow reservoirs. If you do it right and build channels to them, they can absorb a good deal of run off and save valuable farm land. ”
Friday, June 05, 2009 11:04:33 PM
findlayhawk wrote:
Lets try logic
“ Am I the only one who finds it interesting that a few in the farming community appear ready to blame flooding completely on urban development while minimizing or ignoring their own contributions to the flooding problem?
Lets take the statement that 80% of the watershed is agricultural. Now lets assume that the smaller communities in the watershed have not changed in size since the 1980s even though we all know this is not true. Then lets go further and assume that Findlay, since the 1980s, has developed a total of 5% of the 20% not devoted to agriculture. We can go one step further and assume that the developers in Findlay ignored all the building regulations and dumped every drop of water that fell on their development directly into the river. I think this is awfully unfair but we are just using examples so it is close enough for the discussion.
Does anyone honestly believe that 5% of the watershed caused all the recent flooding? For that to be true wouldn't the vast majority of the rain that falls on the watershed have to land directly on the recently developed 5% of the watershed? Do the math. It simply doesn't add up. The problem is not the sole fault of development within communities, whether it be Findlay, Arlington, Ottawa or any other village.

And just for the sake of argument, lets talk about the problem with communities only requiring a 25 year rain event retention system on all developments. Given the benefit of hindsight I think that was a serious mistake. But at the same time will someone please explain the retention requirements placed on a farmer who decides to tile a non-productive field or improve the drainage structure in another field? After all, anyone who farms 100 acres has as much water during a rain event as a 100 acre urbad development has.
The truth is there is no requirement for a farmer to retain even a drop of water that falls on his or her field. Not only that, a farmer can choose at any time to remove water from thier field by installing tile without any oversight. A farm tile system is designed to do one thing-remove water as fast as possible. And it can only go one place. It all gets dumped into the river faster than ever before. I think if we could understand the amount of farm tile that has been installed in the watershed since the 1980s any reasonable person would see that farming has been a significant contributor to the recent flooding problems.

Please don't think I am a participant in the finger pointing game. I am just trying to get the facts on the table. I do not blame farmers for improving and developing their fields into more productive land by way of improved drainage systems. They are trying to do what every other person would do-make money from their investment. But that is no different than what is happening within the communities that are located in the watershed.

The flooding problem is not the fault of any single activity or group. It is a complicated, collective problem and the partnership is the only organization currently working to facilitate improvements. The partnership can provide local views and input but ultimately the Army Corp of Engineers will determine the most practical plan of action. Yet no matter what the Corp suggests, it will be up to the people of this area to decide if something is done or not. A conservancy district is the most common way used to manage flooding issues and has worked well in many areas of the country. It may be the best answer for flooding in this area as well.




 ”
Friday, June 05, 2009 7:47:30 PM
Ted wrote:
Let Findlay residents/businesses pay to occupy areas that flood
“ A practical lesson on flooding can be taken from flooding/damage from hurricanes. Many insurers have left Florida due to the damage to homes built in areas where no homes should be allowed (on the sands of the beaches literally fronting on the Gulf and Atlantic). If you build in an area prone to devastation, you should have to carry insurance sufficient to cover your losses. If your home floods and the insurer pays and you INSIST on continuing to live in that location then you are at the mercy of insurers that may refuse to insure you after that time. Once your home or business cannot be occupied due to the damage (and you are unwilling to pay for the repairs out of your pocket), the property should be cleared and no construction allowed on the site. Look at any farmland that fronts on the rivers. Farmers have a choice of letting that land sit fallow to allow for flooding or they can plant and gamble that it will not flood. Residents and businesses that locate in flood-prone areas should carry the same responsibility/risk as those that build homes on the Florida beaches that get ravaged by Hurricanes. No thanks Findlay, I don't want to pay so that your municipalities, wealthy residents and businesses can make the same poor decisions to continue to occupy flood-prone areas. ”
Friday, June 05, 2009 12:55:23 PM
Karen wrote:
bob and your mother nature recall
“ Bob, we have had this conversation before. Do you want to buy my property and give it back to mother nature or do I just write off my mortgage and donate my property to her? Stop gnawing on the same bone. Participate in coming up with a real solution instead of the same gripe over and over. ”
Friday, June 05, 2009 12:54:45 PM
Ted wrote:
Findlay should take steps to fix itself also...
“ Since the 1980's (and still occuring today) Hancock County and the city of Findlay have allowed urban sprawl at the expense of flood plain control. Look to the southeast side of Findlay. Back in the 70's when my mother would drive to 'Food Town' and 'Bargain City' to shop, we travelled a backroad that wound its way along the river. That road was removed and the floodplain filled to make way for 100's of high-end homes. Since the area was filled/raised above flood levels, that water finds its way into other areas (UP and DOWNstream). There should be assessments on properties living in areas of Findlay that were once flood plains... Let them pay for the privilege of keeping the multi-million dollar homes in a floodplain. Question: How much more severe is the flooding in the Findlay and Ottawa areas since Findlay's rampant sprawl gobbled up the floodplains? Findlay gets the tax revenue from the residences and businesses that occupy those tracts of land and the developers have made millions... now, the rest of us have to pay for such excesses! ”
Friday, June 05, 2009 11:59:17 AM
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After fighting a house fire early Monday at 815 Howard St., firefighters found 20 marijuana plants in the residence.

"They ran across it and called us," said police Sgt. Justin Hendren with the Hancock County METRICH Drug Enforcement Unit.

Police seized all 20 plants, and Hendren said charges are pending.

High-powered growing lights, fans, and a box filled with dried marijuana were also found in the house, according to a police report.

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Fletcher began his patrol career in 2002 after graduating from the 139th Academy class and has been assigned to the Findlay post since.

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There will be no classes and the college offices will be closed.

Classes will resume and offices will open again on Tuesday.

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